Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Forum to discuss other group members, i.e. Scott Mckenzie, Spanky McFarlane, Mackenzie Phillips, Jill Gibson, etc.

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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby adamcarr » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:57 pm

I just wanted to comment on this stream, amazing!! The passion & detail in this is remarkable, WOW! Inspiring!
I love this forum!
Adam :D
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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby ChrisOtheBigC » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:05 pm

Hmmmm! What is it about guys named CHRIS, and their fascination with Mama Jill? LOL! I remember broaching this subject several years ago on the old MB (back when Cass' site had the swirling flowers, and what all). I was in contact with Jill for a good while, having come across her website. Without a doubt, Jill Gibson is a sweet and very talented woman.

I asked Jill about her stint with the Mamas & Papas. She was most gracious. As I recall, her memory was hazy, as she had simply put it behind her. I was quite pleased when the link to was added here. I remember Jill telling me that she did not sing on "Dancing In The Street" or "Once Was A Time I Thought". She was definate in recording "Trip Stumble & Fall", "Look Through My Window", and "Strange Young Girls". I have always felt that she is quite audible on Trip and Strange. I hear both Michelle and Jill on Strange (I believe that is Jill singing the opening lines). I do not hear Michelle on "Even if I Could" and "I Can't Wait".

So, when was "Look Through My Window" released as a single? Richard, I remember you writing me and saying that Window was recorded while Jill was with the group. I hear Michelle, and I hear Jill, too. Bounced? Trounced? Mamas by the ounce?

I recall Jill remembering her tenure with the group as being about three months. That pretty much jives with recorded history, you should pardon the expression. She was gone by September, I remember that.

Jill probably remembers singing NO! on "Words Of Love" in concert, but I'll be damned if that's not Michelle. Ha ha! It is confussing, isn't it? And in a way, it doesn't matter...because there is no denying that Jill was a Mama! However briefly she was with the group, she WAS in the group! She is one of the two Mamas that sing on the hit single "Trip...", and she can be heard sometimes clearly (and sometimes as part of the mix) on the second album.

It used to upset me that Michelle was ever fired from the group. I felt it was vindictive and not at all fair. Indeed, the notion that anyone but Michelle or Cass ever recorded as a Mama with the original group, UPSET me! LOL! Now, I cherish the fact that Jill had a part in it all.

The sound mixes have varied over the years: but I find that Jill is most audible on the four cd Anthology, and on the rare import cd of "The Mamas & The Papas" released by MCA.

Truly, I think that despite the sort of "now you hear her, now you don't" quality of many of the songs, Jill deserves to be awarded a gold record for "The Mamas & The Papas" lp. Even if her stint would not warrant her being included in the Hall Of Fame along with the group.

Like it or not, there were three Mamas singing on that second album! Also, singing on one cut featured on the third lp, or so I believe. It would be too conveniant for purists to deny Jill. As for myself, I would not sweep her under the rug...Even If I Could!

With much love to Michelle and Jill~
Chris O (who cannot remember his username on the old MB).

p.s. I'm sure that we can all agree that Jill is NOT vocally present on the first, fourth and fifth albums. But what about "Harvey"?!?
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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby John Sands » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:23 am


I'm curious about something. Your name is Chris, a guy named Draeko's name is Chris, and if I'm not mistaken, Ars' name on youtube is Chris, all 3 of you are Jill fans, so is Ars, Chris and Draeko the same person?
John Sands
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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby Ars_Nova_Chris » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:40 pm

Lol, I responded to him in a different thread, so if he's me, I got some serious issues! :D

We also have Chris from Lithuania on the board here, who, I believe, like myself, is a fan of both Jill and Michelle. ;)

Not sure who the other guy you mentioned is...
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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby Sportguynj1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:49 am

When I was high school and college I was in a rock band and we did some recording in a studio. I learned about sound mixing, overdubbing tracks, splicing tracks, etc. I'm certainly not an expert or a recording engineer but, given the circumstances involved with recording the Mamas and Papas second album, I seriously doubt that Jill Gibson recorded 10 of the 12 songs that appear on that album and here's why:

1. In multiple interviews, John, Denny, Michelle and Lou Adler have said that Michelle recorded a few songs for the second album - "I Saw Her Again", "Words of Love" and "Once Was a Time I Thought" before she was fired from the band on June 4, 1966 after their performance at Melodyland (she was officially fired in a letter signed by John, Denny and Cass which was dated June 28, 1966). "I Saw Her Again" was recorded in April, 1966 and released in late June of 1966. Jill Gibson didn't start recording with group until early July so there's no way she could have sang on this song.

2. Jill admits that she didn't sing on "Dancing in the Street" - John Phillips states in his autobiography that this song was recorded with Michelle the night after she was reinstated in the group.

3. Jill also admits that she didn't sing on "Once Was a Time I Thought" - that is clearly Michelle's voice on the record and if you're looking for proof, listen to the "studio chatter" on their "Gathering of Flowers" compilation which includes an outtake from the studio where the group is heard recording this song - and Michelle is clearly heard saying "Wait a minute." Then you hear "Michelle can do anything she wants" and Cass retorts "No, she can't!"

3. The Rodgers and Hart material, "Here in My Arms" (which was later re-worked into "No Salt on Her Tail") and Michelle's personal favorite, "My Heart Stood Still" was also recorded with Michelle once she came back to the group. They used the backing tracks for the "Rodgers and Hart Today" ABC special which was taped in September of 1966.

4. "Words of Love" is another song that I believe Michelle is on and here's why. First of all, it was recorded in April of 1966 and it is well known that Cass did NOT want to sing lead on this song. She actually suggested that Michelle sing the lead - especially since the song was written about her - but Michelle declined. John forced Cass to sing the lead on this song by having her stand on top of a grand piano with a microphone and this was confirmed by John, Michelle, Denny and Lou Adler.

5. That leaves "Trip, Stumble and Fall", "Dancing Bear", "Strange Young Girls", "I Can't Wait", "Even if I Could" and "That Kind of Girl". I believe it's entirely possible that Jill's voice is on any or all of these remaining 6 tracks. If anything, when Michelle returned to the group her voice was most likely added as an overdub to the background tracks. It sounds like "I Can't Wait" is really a duet between Cass and John - and they overdubbed their own vocals to make the sound a bit fuller although I can be wrong.

6. As far as the two tracks that eventually appreared on their 3rd album, "Deliver", it's entirely possible that Jill sang on "Did you Ever Want to Cry?" However, "Look Through My Window" was supposedly recorded in September, 1966 which is after Jill left the group and released as a single months before "Deliver" came out. It was my understanding that Michelle is on this recording and has said it's one of her favorite records ever done with the group.

It's been over 40 years since this album was recorded and it seems like we'll never know who exactly is on what recording. I guess this will remain one of the unsolved myseteries that will always follow the Mamas and the Papas but, no matter what, this remains one of my favorite albums of all time and the CD is always in my car and I never get tired of listening to it!

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Re: Email from Jill regarding the 2nd LP

Postby ChrisOtheBigC » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:56 pm

Hey John,

I am only myself, sir: ChrisOtheBigC!

As I said, I can't remember what my username was on the old MB, but I had brought up the Mama Jill topic there.

I'm CERTAIN that Richard had told me in the past that Jill had sung in early sessions for "Look Through My Window"; of course, people make mistakes. Jill insists she sang on that one: she's made mistakes before. We all do.

I guess in my own mind, I believe that both Mich and Jill laid vocals down on that track. It just makes it a little more enjoyable for me...and that's funny, really...because the idea of it used to make me SO frustrated! :lol:

Anyway, do check out I rallied to have her link included here, and that request was very kindly granted (although I cannot say it was because of ME).

Jill is indeed a talented artist. I own her piece called LARGE WOMAN. It reminded me of Cass, and it's just beautiful, like the lady, herself.
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